Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Support forum for DGDecNV
Post Reply
DAE avatar
Boulder
Moose Approved
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:22 am

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Boulder »

Would it be possible to have DGIndexNV warn if the container framerate differs from the video track framerate? I've sometimes come across Matroska files where this happens, and eac3to shows a little warning message. I guess the video framerate is the one to trust so it would also be good to allow using that in the DGI file. This deviation probably also affects the chapters2qp functionality.
User avatar
tormento
DG Approved/Moose Approved
Posts: 565
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:18 pm

Feature Requests

Post by tormento »

Boulder wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:12 am
Would it be possible to have DGIndexNV warn if the container framerate differs from the video track framerate?
It is much easier to use MediaInfo than to introduce complexity. JM2C
DAE avatar
Boulder
Moose Approved
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:22 am

Feature Requests

Post by Boulder »

tormento wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:34 am
Boulder wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:12 am
Would it be possible to have DGIndexNV warn if the container framerate differs from the video track framerate?
It is much easier to use MediaInfo than to introduce complexity. JM2C
I can use an external tool like MediaInfo or eac3to, but since I don't use them for other purposes, it's an extra step. Besides, there is the need to fix the DGI file manually regardless.
User avatar
Bullwinkle
Moose Approved
Posts: 271
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:37 pm

Feature Requests

Post by Bullwinkle »

Boulder wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:12 am
Would it be possible to have DGIndexNV warn if the container framerate differs from the video track framerate? I've sometimes come across Matroska files where this happens, and eac3to shows a little warning message. I guess the video framerate is the one to trust so it would also be good to allow using that in the DGI file. This deviation probably also affects the chapters2qp functionality.
We can have a popup on open that notifies the mismatch and allows to select which frame rate to use. Then of course someone will ask for an option to disable the popup.
DAE avatar
Boulder
Moose Approved
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:22 am

Feature Requests

Post by Boulder »

Bullwinkle wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:50 am
Boulder wrote:
Sun Apr 17, 2022 4:12 am
Would it be possible to have DGIndexNV warn if the container framerate differs from the video track framerate? I've sometimes come across Matroska files where this happens, and eac3to shows a little warning message. I guess the video framerate is the one to trust so it would also be good to allow using that in the DGI file. This deviation probably also affects the chapters2qp functionality.
We can have a popup on open that notifies the mismatch and allows to select which frame rate to use. Then of course someone will ask for an option to disable the popup.
I was thinking along the lines of the d2v file correction DGIndex had. A popup and a question to fix the index file. By default, fix applied (also for CLI).
User avatar
Rocky
Moose Approved
Posts: 2207
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Rocky »

Please test this and advise if it does what you need. It checks for a mismatch on open. There is a new controlling option in settings that lets you choose what to do when a mismatch is detected:

Prompt
Use ES FPS
Use Container FPS

Please open DGIndexNV and then close it once before testing to get the INI file updated.

https://rationalqm.us/misc/DGIndexNV_test.zip
DAE avatar
Boulder
Moose Approved
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:22 am

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Boulder »

Rocky wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:17 pm
Please test this and advise if it does what you need. It checks for a mismatch on open. There is a new controlling option in settings that lets you choose what to do when a mismatch is detected:

Prompt
Use ES FPS
Use Container FPS

Please open DGIndexNV and then close it once before testing to get the INI file updated.

https://rationalqm.us/misc/DGIndexNV_test.zip
Thank you for the test version. It will take a longer time to get to test it as my house is under a bigger renovation job and I'm living in a temporary flat for the next three weeks or so. All the computer stuff had to be left behind :cry: Nevertheless, the proposed method sounds good to me :D
User avatar
Rocky
Moose Approved
Posts: 2207
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Rocky »

Ooh, computer withdrawal. I feel for you. Good luck with the renovation.

One question: should I suppress the popup on CLI operation, and if so, use the container or ES frame rate?
DAE avatar
Boulder
Moose Approved
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:22 am

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Boulder »

Rocky wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 7:37 am
Ooh, computer withdrawal. I feel for you. Good luck with the renovation.

One question: should I suppress the popup on CLI operation, and if so, use the container or ES frame rate?
Hehe, must be the longest time without a (personal) computer since my C64 broke down some time in the late 80s. "Fortunately" I work in IT, so it's still pretty much a 8/5 thing all week anyway.

I vote for suppressing the popup and using the ES frame rate. I'd say that works correctly in 99,5% of the cases.
User avatar
Rocky
Moose Approved
Posts: 2207
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Rocky »

OK then, so be it.

"since my C64 broke down"

You made me choke on my acorn!
User avatar
Rocky
Moose Approved
Posts: 2207
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Rocky »

Released in build 243.
DAE avatar
cnzqy2
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:20 am

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by cnzqy2 »

This wiki page from mkvtoolnix appears to suggest that there isn't such a thing as container FPS for MKV: https://gitlab.com/mbunkus/mkvtoolnix/- ... -displayed. Should video stream FPS always be used at least for MKV even in GUI? i.e. yes, I'm asking to disable the popup but this is more based of the MKV spec than user preference.
User avatar
Rocky
Moose Approved
Posts: 2207
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Rocky »

Welcome to the forum, cnzqy2.

Be careful, you'll upset the frog, and the frog is lethal. :wow:

I would estimate that 90+% or even 95+% of MKV streams are fixed frame rate. And it's easy to allow for field-based streams when calculating frame rate. Nobody bothers because they are so rare.

For me, it's insane to have a container format that cannot signal FPS. Lot's of processing goes on that does not involve a player, and for such processing knowing the frame rate is often important. People demand it! That's why they use the default duration to signal and calculate it (e.g., MediaInfo, eac3to, and many other important applications). It will be this way, and we're going to support people's actual usage.
DAE avatar
cnzqy2
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:20 am

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by cnzqy2 »

Rocky, thanks a lot for the explanation! I'm trying to understand this issue better so pardon me for asking a question for a specific file:

This is a sample MKV with a progressive video stream encoded as field-based (i.e. "1080i25" AVC Blu-ray for standard compliance): https://send.cm/d/Bref. Using mkvinfo I can see that: "Default duration: 00:00:00.020000000 (50.000 frames/fields per second for a video track)", and since it's encoded as interlaced, it should indicate 25 FPS as expected. However, DGDecNV, MediaInfo, and eac3to all think the MKV container tells them that the FPS is 50. Any clues for why this might be the case?

MediaInfo:

Code: Select all

General
Unique ID                   : 71869659779284223062547032639099940464 (0x361197CDF14E04F728E73B8241B0AE70)
Complete name               : sample.mkv
Format                      : Matroska
Format version              : Version 4
File size                   : 42.1 KiB
Duration                    : 960 ms
Overall bit rate mode       : Variable
Overall bit rate            : 359 kb/s
Encoded date                : UTC 2022-06-02 05:45:27
Writing application         : mkvmerge v68.0.0 ('The Curtain') 64-bit
Writing library             : libebml v1.4.2 + libmatroska v1.6.4

Video
ID                          : 1
Format                      : AVC
Format/Info                 : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile              : High@L4.1
Format settings             : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC      : Yes
Format settings, Reference  : 3 frames
Codec ID                    : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                    : 960 ms
Bit rate mode               : Variable
Bit rate                    : 307 kb/s
Maximum bit rate            : 35.0 Mb/s
Width                       : 1 920 pixels
Height                      : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio        : 16:9
Frame rate mode             : Variable
Frame rate                  : 50.000 FPS
Original frame rate         : 25.000 FPS
Standard                    : NTSC
Color space                 : YUV
Chroma subsampling          : 4:2:0
Bit depth                   : 8 bits
Scan type                   : Interlaced
Scan type, store method     : Separated fields
Scan order                  : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)          : 0.003
Stream size                 : 36.0 KiB (86%)
Default                     : Yes
Forced                      : No
Color range                 : Limited
Color primaries             : BT.709
Transfer characteristics    : BT.709
Matrix coefficients         : BT.709
User avatar
Rocky
Moose Approved
Posts: 2207
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Rocky »

If the world was ideal, then the apps could say, hey, it's interlaced so divide the calculated frame rate by 2. But as with many aspects of MKV their purist mentality leaves us in a pickle. While there is an MKV header field called FlagInterlaced, it is more often than not simply left unset and so it defaults to false. You have to jump through hoops to get it set correctly. You can use the mkvtoolnix header editor to set it. But the reality is that it is more often than not unreliable.

OK, you may be thinking, use an interlaced flag from the ES. Could be done but when trying to report a container frame rate, it seems silly to have to query ES data for an app like DGIndexNV. Again, ideally, all the MKV multiplexers (mkvtoolnix, MakeMKV, etc.) could read the ES flag and then set it at container level during muxing. But they don't!

Always open to suggestions.
DAE avatar
cnzqy2
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:20 am

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by cnzqy2 »

That's fair. Querying the ES is probably the best solution in this case I think, but indeed it's kind of a conundrum if we want a separation between the container info and the ES info.
User avatar
Rocky
Moose Approved
Posts: 2207
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:57 pm

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by Rocky »

I'll look into doing that but no promises.
DAE avatar
cnzqy2
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:20 am

Warning for container FPS != ES FPS

Post by cnzqy2 »

Alternatively I suppose is to file bug reports and ask mkvtoolnix, MakeMKV, etc. to properly set the FlagInterlaced flag.
Post Reply