[RESOLVED] Field Order in video preview on DGIndexNV?

[simcut]

Hi there

Firstly, DGIndexNV is a great program, thank you.

One thing though, is it possible for the Field Order (TFF / BFF) to be displayed when previewing the video. It only appears when I save the .dgi file, normally in the dgi filename I put what DGIndexNV detected the source as, so Scene 1 Interlaced 4x3.dgi but I have to keep going back and editing the filename to mention what the field order is, so when I come to import the .dgi in MeGUI I can pick the right settings. Any chance you can add Field Order display to the video preview in DGIndexNV, or is it not possible?

Another quick question, if the source detected is 'Progressive' but when I open the dgi the FILM percentage is at 0 does that mean it isnt Progressive, or can you have Progressive source that is 0% Film?

And finally, I have a scene that is recognised as Progressive, but it has plants in the background of part of it, and they appear quite strange, flickering a little bit, or appearing like they are interlaced, with lines (there is no other sign of interlace in the entire scene), is there anything that I can do about it, as its offputting.

Thanks in advance!

[admin]

One thing though, is it possible for the Field Order (TFF / BFF) to be displayed when previewing the video. It only appears when I save the .dgi file, normally in the dgi filename I put what DGIndexNV detected the source as, so Scene 1 Interlaced 4x3.dgi but I have to keep going back and editing the filename to mention what the field order is, so when I come to import the .dgi in MeGUI I can pick the right settings. Any chance you can add Field Order display to the video preview in DGIndexNV, or is it not possible?

Sure it's possible. I've been meaning to make a release to add some features I have added locally, so I'll add that and make a release "soon".

Another quick question, if the source detected is 'Progressive' but when I open the dgi the FILM percentage is at 0 does that mean it isnt Progressive, or can you have Progressive source that is 0% Film?

Film percentage just tells you the percentage of the clip that has flagged 3:2 pulldown. It has nothing to do with whether the *content* is progressive or not. In fact, strangely enough, the Progressive indication itself does not tell you whether the content is progressive or interlaced, but only how it was encoded. If these things baffle you, you'll need to study MPEG2 encoding and 3:2 pulldown. The documents and available online resources should be ample to bring you up to speed.

And finally, I have a scene that is recognised as Progressive, but it has plants in the background of part of it, and they appear quite strange, flickering a little bit, or appearing like they are interlaced, with lines (there is no other sign of interlace in the entire scene), is there anything that I can do about it, as its offputting.

Please post a link to an unprocessed source sample. There's no way for me to guess what you have.

[simcut]

Thanks for the quick reply, look forward to the new release when you can get round to it, by the way, something else I've been experiencing, on some videos when I open the .vob files through DGIndexNV and hold down the right arrow to fast forward through the video it sometimes stops and gets stuck, and I have to move the seek bar (if thats what you'd call it) with my mouse past that bit so I can continue holding the right arrow key down to fast forward. What causes that? is it anything to worry about or just some bug, or just nothing to worry about?

Will link you to a vob sample to show what I mean about the plants.

Cheers

[admin]

something else I've been experiencing, on some videos when I open the .vob files through DGIndexNV and hold down the right arrow to fast forward through the video it sometimes stops and gets stuck, and I have to move the seek bar (if thats what you'd call it) with my mouse past that bit so I can continue holding the right arrow key down to fast forward. What causes that? is it anything to worry about or just some bug, or just nothing to worry about?

I've seen that with the left arrow because heuristics are needed for the GOP back operation and they are not perfect. I've never seen it on GOP forward. If you want it to be looked at you will have to provide a sample that I can use to duplicate the problem.

[simcut]

Hi there

Thanks again for your fast replies, good news, I managed to rectify the issue I had with the flickering plants on the source, or at least as much as I can, I used the Placebo preset on QTGMC with an Input Type of 3 and its eliminated most of the flicker.

Thank you anyway for your help, I did have another question however.

Your program reports that the resolution for dvd source vob's as 4:3 but when I open the .dgi file in the avisynth script creator in MeGUI it reports the resolution as 16:9 instead! What can cause the resolutions to be reported incorrectly, and (I know this might be cheeky, sorry if it seems it), but which program should I trust more that is giving the correct resolution? Never noticed that issue before, seems odd to me

Also, with your program, if it detects something as Interlaced should I trust it 110% that I dont encode it treating it like Progressive even though I cant see interlace in the source?

Sorry for all the questions but you are the man with the knowledge

Cheers

[simcut]

Uh oh, just thought I'd post with a new problem....

when I am fast forwarding and rewinding through video that is open in DGIndexNV I get screen tearing appearing on the screen, always in the same place. It's only started doing it today, and I have no idea why it's suddenly started doing it. It's happening on different movies that I load in DGIndexNV, not just one in particular, any idea why it's happening and what I can do about it?.

When I am watching a video live (for example a .wmv) I'm not seeing the screen tear at all. It seems to only appear when I am scanning through vob's with the arrow keys in DGIndexNV - anything to worry about?

Thank you, hopefully I am overreacting and it's nothing to worry about....

I should mention my monitor is in 60hz like it's supposed to be.

Regards

[admin]

Your program reports that the resolution for dvd source vob's as 4:3 but when I open the .dgi file in the avisynth script creator in MeGUI it reports the resolution as 16:9 instead! What can cause the resolutions to be reported incorrectly, and (I know this might be cheeky, sorry if it seems it), but which program should I trust more that is giving the correct resolution? Never noticed that issue before, seems odd to me

Feel free to be cheeky. But you'll have to grant me that privilege also! I lost my mind-reading powers when I hit 50, and my magic wand went on loan and the sod never returned it. Go figure. So I am going to have to ask you to post a link to an unprocessed source sample so that I can properly analyze your issue. Also post the full script.

Also, with your program, if it detects something as Interlaced should I trust it 110% that I dont encode it treating it like Progressive even though I cant see interlace in the source?

You missed the significance of my earlier post. DGIndexNV does not report whether the content is interlaced or not, but only how the encoder was configured. It's clearly described in the user manual:

Frame Coding - Displays "Progressive" if the progressive_frame syntax element is set, otherwise "Interlaced" is displayed. Do not make the mistake of assuming that this tells you whether the video content itself is progressive or interlaced! What determines that is whether there is motion at the field rate. This Info dialog field tells you only how the video was encoded; it is quite common to encode progressive content as interlaced.

And I have discussed it umpteen times online. So I'm going to ask you to do your homework. The only fully reliable way to know the nature of your video is to inspect it by eye. See questions 1 and 2 here for some notes on how to do that:

http://rationalqm.us/faq.html

[admin]

Uh oh, just thought I'd post with a new problem....

when I am fast forwarding and rewinding through video that is open in DGIndexNV I get a vertical line flicker in the middle of the video, and it's always in the same place, its only started doing it today, and I have no idea what it is, its happening on different movies that I load in DGIndexNV, not just one in particular, any idea what it is? I really dont like the look of it, does it mean either my graphics card or my monitor is on its way out? thing is, it only happens in DGIndexNV so far.

When I am watching a video live (for example a .wmv) I'm not seeing the vertical line flicker, at all. It seems to only appear when I am scanning through vob's with the arrow keys in DGIndexNV - anything to worry about?

There is no black line or anything, its just a flicker where the left & right side of it are different, sorry I'm really bad at explaining how it sounds.

Any suggestions what it might be?

Thank you, hopefully I am overreacting and it's nothing to worry about....

You have to provide a sample that I can use to reproduce the issue. Use DGSplit to cut and upload to mediafire.com. It could be a hardware problem. Try a full power down and reboot. Does it show up when you view your script in VirtualDub or in your encode? What is your graphics card?

The display is not sync'ed to VSYNC so you may see some tearing. It's not intended to be a player. Tearing, though, is horizontal, so I am dubious if this can account for what you see. So please provide a sample. In most cases where only one person out of thousands reports an issue, it's usually in the stream or it's a hardware issue. Or PEBCAK.

[simcut]

Hi there

Sorry, I edited my post a few minutes ago as you were posting your reply. Rather than flickering I found the words I was looking for, it's exactly like screen tearing but it's vertical not horizontal.

I've been trying to replicate it so I can pinpoint part of a dvd that it happens on so you can look yourself, but it alternates, its at random, not on a particular part of a video, otherwise I would quite happily upload a portion of the movie for you to test, but it doesnt appear to be the source, it must be a monitor/graphics card issue at my end, drivers more than likely.

Sorry for not reading the manual thoroughly about the Progressive/Interlace thing *slaps wrist*

Thank you for your replies though I'm going to do some googling to find out more about this vertical screen tearing, so far its just happening in DGIndexNV, if I am able to pinpoint a particular part of a DVD where this occurs I will of course upload that segment for you to test.

Anyway, this issue appears to be a non-DGIndex matter, so I will leave you in peace

Kind Regards

[admin]

Please answer all my questions. I edited my post so you may have missed them. Thank you.

Another question: Does it only happen when doing forward by GOP? What happens if you preview with F5?

Don't worry about my peace. I live to serve you and make you happy!

[simcut]

You have to provide a sample that I can use to reproduce the issue. Use DGSplit to cut and upload to mediafire.com. It could be a hardware problem. Try a full power down and reboot. Does it show up when you view your script in VirtualDub or in your encode? What is your graphics card?

The display is not sync'ed to VSYNC so you may see some tearing. It's not intended to be a player. Tearing, though, is horizontal, so I am dubious if this can account for what you see. So please provide a sample. In most cases where only one person out of thousands reports an issue, it's usually in the stream or it's a hardware issue. Or PEBCAK.

It may be a hardware issue, I've already checked my GPU temps to make sure my graphics card wasnt overheating, and its running at a nice 35 degrees, and it hits 57-59 degrees when encoding (and cpu usage is in the 97-99% mark)

Will try and full power down and reboot now, so far it's only happening in DGIndexNV, I've opened an .avs in MeGUI's avisynth script creator and the video preview player appears, no screen tearing there when I fast forward and rewind with the arrow keys.

My graphics card is a EVGA Nvidia GeForce GTX 560

I'm going to try a few things, like I said above, I think it's not something related to DGIndex, will try a few things, taking my card out and popping it back in, reconnecting the power connectors to it, re-installing monitor drivers, graphics card drivers, all that stuff.

Thank you anyway

P.S. Cats are awesome

[simcut]

Another question: Does it only happen when doing forward by GOP? What happens if you preview with F5?

Don't worry about my peace. I live to serve you and make you happy!

Not sure what GOP means, but yes, it only happens when I fast forward/rewind using the arrow keys (not the seek bar), it doesnt happen at all in the F5 preview.

[admin]

Ah, another cat lover, so I will be super kind to you.

You say "I think it's not something related to DGIndex" but you also say that it only happens with DGIndexNV. I'm a Seeker after Truth so this discrepancy will keep me from sleeping tonight. Do you want to have that on your conscience?

It sounds inconsequential to me if it doesn't affect your encode or script output. It may be an idiosyncracy of your graphics card or driver.

One more question if you can abide me a little longer. When you finally let go of the right arrow key, is the displayed frame OK or is it torn?

[simcut]

Ah, another cat lover. so I will be super kind to you.

You say "I think it's not something related to DGIndex" but you also say that it only happens with DGIndexNV. I'm a seeker after Truth so this discrepancy will keep me from sleeping tonight. Do you want to have that on your conscience?

What happens if you just do preview (F5)?

there's a saying, a dog is a man's best friend, but cats can be too! Cats are far superior to dogs, erm anyway.

I'm trying to replicate it again now and now its not doing it..... what gives!! Kind of feel like one of those people who ring up a tech support only to find the problem is 'fixed'.

I've tried for the last 5 minutes, opening VOB format videos to try and get the screen tear to appear again, nada, zilch!

F5 preview is absolutely fine, no screen tear, and there wasnt before with F5 preview, was only with fast forwarding & rewinding before, for example I'd tap right arrow then left arrow, holding them down each a bit longer and it would do it.

Regards

[admin]

A quick Google search turns up some possibilities. Here's one:

http://superuser.com/questions/304120/p ... -windows-7

There can be collisions with other programs, etc.

[simcut]

It sounds inconsequential to me if it doesn't affect your encode or script output. It may be an idiosyncracy of your graphics card or driver.

One more question if you can abide me a little longer. When you finally let go of the right arrow key, is the displayed frame OK or is it torn?

Will do a reboot (I uninstalled ffshow tryouts, haali media splitter, monitor driver) - so I'll do a quick reboot and then do a test encode and see if it occurs then.

when I let go of the arrow key there is no visual tear, its as the frames change, I've tried to stop when I see a tear like effect but when I do there is nothing out of the ordinary

Sorry if I'm waffling or repeating myself, or not making sense, it's 2:30am here

[admin]

It sounds totally harmless then. Go to bed right now!

[simcut]

I've just had a brainwave, my nvidia card has a control panel where you can add an .exe and set Vsync on for that program, will try that with DGIndexNV and see if that solves the tearing problem.

Will also do a test encode (I encode to h264 mp4 using QTGMC deinterlacer normally) and see if I get any tearing when playing that back.

Kind Regards

[simcut]

A quick Google search turns up some possibilities. Here's one:

http://superuser.com/questions/304120/p ... -windows-7

There can be collisions with other programs, etc.

Thanks, going to try the nvidia inspector tool to see if there's anything out of the ordinary there.

By the way, my graphics card is now idling at 58 degrees, odd, normally it's about 35, anyway, that's still not a lot to worry about, when encoding it doesnt go above 60.

[admin]

Hi simcut,

I have implemented the field order detection during preview. If that is useful to you I'd like to give you a test version for your feedback. Please let me know. Thanks.

[admin]

I've released 2043 with this fixed.

[simcut]

Hi there

Thanks for releasing a new version of the program

[simcut]

I've been having a look through the Analysis part of the FAQ, but I'm a bit stuck on part of it.

I've made an .avs file, which is as follows

MPEG2Source("D:\Encode\BIC\Test.d2v")
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields()

I have then loaded it in Virtualdub as a video file. It's showing the video preview, and I understand that the numbers stand for the frames being repeated, I've noticed that the video in question is aa bb cc (for progressive) however, the 2nd repeated frame of each letter seems to shift the video up vertically, if that makes any sense? it's always the 2nd repeated frame, is that normal or something to be concerned about? Should it normally just stay in the same position but be duplicated? when I hold down the right arrow key to fast forward through the frames slowly, the video is jumpy. Now, I know that the source is Progressive having tested to find that its 'aa bb cc' - but I removed the AssumeTFF() line from the avs, but I still get the jumpyness, any suggestions?

Is it also normal that the video quality appears really quite poor when previewing in Virtualdub?

Hope you can provide some clarity on that for me, thank you

[admin]

Of course if you separate fields it will jump up and down. Do you know what fields are? Try Bob() instead of SeparateFields() and see if you can understand the difference. And no, the frames are not being repeated. SeparateFields() places each field in its own frame. One field has the even lines and one the odds. When you put the odd fields in their own frames, the odd field starts on line 0, an even line, when it would be line 1, an odd line, in the original frame. That's why it jumps up and down. And two more points:

First, this is the DGDecNV forum, so why are you asking about DGMPGDec here?

Second, you have to post a link to a sample if you want definitive answers.

Looks like I have to enhance the FAQ somewhat for noob friendliness.

[simcut]

Of course if you separate fields it will jump up and down. Do you know what fields are? Try Bob() instead of SeparateFields() and see if you can understand the difference. And no, the frames are not being repeated. SeparateFields() places each field in its own frame. One field has the even lines and one the odds. When you put the odd fields in their own frames, the odd field starts on line 0, an even line, when it would be line 1, an odd line, in the original frame. That's why it jumps up and down. And two more points:

First, this is the DGDecNV forum, so why are you asking about DGMPGDec here?

Second, you have to post a link to a sample if you want definitive answers.

Looks like I have to enhance the FAQ somewhat for noob friendliness.

Right, I understand about the Field thing now, thank you for clarifying what causes the jumping up & down

I 99% of the time use DGIndexNV (obviously as I bought a license for it I should be using it), just as I was reading the Analysis FAQ I thought I'd do it with the DGIndex program to make a .d2v, just through experimenting.

Okay, will get a sample posted up soon, though I start a new job tomorrow so wont have a lot of free-time, but will do it as soon as I can.

Sorry for being a noob, but be nice, I like cats remember

Thanks again for all your help.