[RESOLVED] fps?

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Sharc
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[RESOLVED] fps?

Post by Sharc »

Just wondering why DGIndexNV reports the framerate of this clip as 15.000 fps while other tools report it (correctly, I believe) as 18.000 fps ?
http://www.mediafire.com/file/p2vb4g493 ... stephen.ts
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

I too see 18 fps in the Info dialog, the DGI file, and in the VirtualDub File Information after loading a script with DGDecodeNV. Please make sure you are using the latest version of DGDecNV.
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Re: fps?

Post by Sharc »

I re-downloaded, but no avail.
DGIndexNV 2052 32bit: 15fps; same in dialog and in dgi file
DGIndexNV 2052 64bit: 15fps; same in dialog and in dgi file
DGAVCIndex 1.09 32bit: 18fps (which is correct)
OS is Windows10 64bit.
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

Weird. Trying on my Win10 machine...

Meanwhile, please post the entire DGI file.
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

I get 18 fps on my Win10 machine too.

Can you double check that the file you use and the one you uploaded are identical?
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

Also, please give your card type and driver version. Closely inspecting my code it appears that the only way this could happen is if CUVID is returning a bad frame rate. I have seen it for 1050 but I have a work-around in place for that. I have a 620 and a 950 and everything is fine.
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Sharc
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Re: fps?

Post by Sharc »

The .dgi:

Code: Select all

DGAVCIndexFileNV16 DGIndexNV 2052 X32
C:\Program Files Video\DGdecNV\

C:\Users\Sharc\test\stephen.ts 1616612

DEVICE 0
DECODE_MODES 0,0,1,0,0
STREAM 1
PKTSIZ 188
VPID 4113
CLIP 0 0 0 0
RANGE 0 0 1616611 0
AUDIO 
DEPTH 8

SPS 9241
PPS 9294
IDR 9343
0:FRM 7 0 -1 5
1:FRM 6 2 -1 5
2:FRM 6 4 -1 5
3:FRM 6 6 -1 5
4:FRM 5 8 -1 5
5:FRM 6 10 -1 5
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180:FRM 5 360 -1 5
SIZ 720 x 576 
FPS 15000 / 1000
CODED 181
PLAYBACK 181
0.00% FILM
ORDER 0
Yes, the downloaded and installed/used versions are latest and identical.

Card & Driver:
NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GS [Pegatron]

Driver Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Driver Description: NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GS
Driver Provider: NVIDIA
Driver Version: 21.21.13.4201
Driver Date: 14-Nov-2016
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

I meant to ensure the TS stream was exactly the same. I'll trust you based on the DGI file.

But hey, I thought you had a 750. Why are you testing on this ancient card with likely ancient CUVID support (even if it has a recent driver version)?

If this is the only nVidia card you have I can give you a test build that will enable us to prove it is CUVID at fault for this card.

As far as I can tell, 9600 GS is a Hewlett-Packard OEM, maybe mobile. Pegatron, what the heck is that? So that makes it even more likely that CUVID is not properly implemented. Is it a laptop? I guess it must be compute capability 1.1 from circa 2008. Formally, I support 1.1 but I can't vouch for CUVID on old OEM cards. And mobile GPUs have always been problematic too. If you want me to make the debug build for you, just say so.

Are you aware of how crappy performance you get from that card? I just bought a 1050 Ti for $120. You can probably get something much better than 9600 GS for $50.

Maybe I should give you one of my spare cards I have lying around. Let me see what I have on hand that I am not using. That's assuming it is not a laptop, of course.
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

Yup, it's an HP OEM made by Pegatron. In other words, a POS.

http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/cpu ... ce-9600-gs

Stand by, Sharc, I'll go check what unused cards I have...
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

I have a GT 520 I could give you, but you can get them on ebay for as low as $6, probably less than what it would cost me to box it up and ship it to you, including my time. ;)

If I were you, I would splurge and get something decent, like a 950, which will do HEVC in HW. At least a 750. Or a 620 if you don't care about HEVC. My every-day machine has i7-4770K win8.1 with a 620 (soon to be a 1050) but when I need HEVC I go to my old i7-980X with win10 and a 950. My home theatre PC has a 750. An old machine of mine that I gave to my niece has a 220. I have a 9600 GT, a 460, and the 520 in the garage, and I threw away an 8800 not so long ago.

Do not buy OEM cards! You can never rely on the driver support. You're just lucky if the official nVidia drivers sort-of work, while the OEM drops driver support in a New York minute.

My philosophy is that whenever I decide to ???-can my current card, I get the best possible replacement that I can afford. Having the paypal money from donations helps, of course, as does being employed, which does not apply for me (loving my retirement, "love to work at nothing all day" [BTO]). You can recover some bucks by selling off your old card, although you may have trouble getting any bites for a Pegatron 9600 GS. Maybe the Smithsonian would be interested.

My next upgrade will probably be a new machine with a late-generation Intel processor, to get a decent Intel IGPU. I'm stuck with Haswell/4600 right now. I just got a $10/month bump in my social security, so maybe it won't be so long.

I am rambling now. The problem with my 980X is that the stock Intel cooler sounds like a jet engine. I just ordered a replacement CoolerMaster fan that I hope will allow me to think while that beast is turned on. :roll:

I also figured out how to program my programmable thermostat, so I'm going to save some bucks while sleeping at night. My cat Sweetie won't like it, but life is full of tradeoffs.

Thanks for your donations, guys. It makes it all possible for me.
:bow:
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Sharc
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Re: fps?

Post by Sharc »

Oh yes, you are perfectly right! The card is ancient as is the HP desktop as is its owner! But well maintained and regularly cleaned and lubricated, I promise! Still with the first original and slow harddisk, still running without a bad sector..... reliable stuff.
So far - for my purpose - I have not found a sound reason to replace the card or the PC - or its owner. I can step through video frames and fields, and play files at HD framerates, and even capture my old videotapes without glitches. No gaming or demanding simulations. It's only for this particular 18fps case (so far) that it returned the wrong framerate. And what I read about recent NVIDIA cards is not entirely convincing either......
But no excuse, you are right, it would do no harm to look occasionally for a newer card. So thanks for your kind offer, it's much appreciated, but I trust I will find something suitable and affordable on this side of the ocean. I'll report back once I have the new card (and it will be from NVIDIA just because DG...NV tools are so bloody useful) - or when I will run into another issue with the current one ... ;)
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

Sounds fair. I like to keep my "good old stuff" too. But I also don't like to miss out on performance/functionality, especially when it can be had so cheaply nowadays. My needs are more stringent, though, as I need to support the latest HW for my users.

One thing I would warn you about. Hard disks do not last forever, and the death rate increases exponentially with age. I hope you make regular backups, and by regular I mean at least once a week to a disk not installed on the same PC. I backup every few days and have a rotating cycle of 3 full system backups (incremental is too dangerous). The current backup is in a docking station of my PC. The previous is in my car's glove compartment (off-site ha ha, I'm OK if the house burns down while I'm out or a burglar steals all my equipment, including the hidden backup). And the one before that is hidden in my house. I also keep Truecrypt backups of my important personal/financial data on my 980X machine. Call me paranoid but I sleep well at night wherever I am. Realize, I'm the kind of guy that goes on vacation and frets the whole time about whether I remembered to close the garage door, and whether I might have left the gas range on. :(

Suppose one day I have to announce that I have lost the source code to DGDecNV or all my quantum physics research. How stupid would I look? I never want to look stupid. :lol:

I have other absurd scenarios I play through in my brain, like what if I am away and lose my wallet. How do I prove who I am and how do I purchase anything to recover? Sure, sure, call a relative but they're all dying off and I prefer to be self-sufficient, so all my key information is memorized. What a way to go through life, eh? It's a form of OCD I suppose, but that is also good for writing robust code, so it's all OK.

If you do not have such a scheme, play a game in your mind where your entire house goes up in flames. Would you be able to recover or would you be effectively destroyed?

Macrium Reflect is my backup solution. It is free, fast, and works on all my platforms. I backup to external USB 3.0 disks, either standalone or internal drives in a docking station.

What are you doing for backup?
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Re: fps?

Post by Aleron Ives »

I don't know, as someone who has had his car burgled more than once, I might be more inclined to put a backup disk inside a fireproof box, rather than in a car. :?
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

Sure, Aleron, that is a risk too. It would have to get both my house and car, though, and when they are co-located I am always around, so hopefully can grab a disk or flee in my car. But now you have me thinking. :wow: I do have a fireproof safe with hard copies of my important stuff, so why not increase my cycle to 4, and put one in there? Done!

On all my backups, including on-line stuff on my main machine, my financial data and passwords are in Truecrypt containers. So even if a disk is stolen I am OK. One cannot be too paranoid.

The amazing thing to me is that so many people have no plan at all.
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Re: fps?

Post by Aleron Ives »

Is your car in a garage most of the time? I would be worried about the strain on a HDD of the huge temperature swings that a car undergoes if it has to sit outside. Even so, I've been a bit worried about not having an "off-site" backup in the past, so perhaps I will start doing that, too. :lol: I will need to get another USB HDD and learn how to do full disk encryption with TrueCrypt, though.
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

I knew you were smart, Aleron, now you confirm it. I have researched the environmental issues for my drives and it's OK for my garage. You have to wait for the drive to come near room temperature before trying to access it, that's all. Freezing is not a problem. Remember how people used to put their flaky drives in the freezer to try to get the data off them? What a world.

The temperature swings of turning a PC on and off are probably as extreme or more extreme than those due to weather. I leave my machine on all the time.

You do not have to have a full disk encryption. I only encrypt really sensitive stuff in a volume. That's what makes it easy to copy the sensitive stuff to all my machines. For the rest it is just the Windows password. Keep throwing things out though, I am obsessed with data safety. You can hide the volume in a multimedia file but I never went that far, as I trust the Truecrypt password against all but NSA-level attackers.

There is the possibility to do cloud backup but I do not trust it. I remember when att.home.net killed off their free web hosting without warning anyone. Fortunately I had a local copy (paranoid remember?) but lots of people lost their entire sites without backup and ATT said you should have read the terms of service. :evil:

In case you are wondering I have had three times in my life where my backups saved me from looking stupid.
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Re: fps?

Post by admin »

I'm going to mark this resolved but feel free to continue the discussion of data safety. No rule 3 here.
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Re: fps?

Post by Aleron Ives »

admin wrote:I knew you were smart, Aleron, now you confirm it.
:ugeek: ;)
admin wrote:I have researched the environmental issues for my drives and it's OK for my garage. You have to wait for the drive to come near room temperature before trying to access it, that's all. Freezing is not a problem.
I'm more worried about heat, as my car has to sit outside. Leaving an HDD in there would be almost as bad (worse?) than putting it in an attic when it comes to extreme temperature swings between day and night. :shock:
admin wrote:You do not have to have a full disk encryption. I only encrypt really sensitive stuff in a volume. That's what makes it easy to copy the sensitive stuff to all my machines.
While it's true that it isn't necessary, I would rather have everything encrypted so that I wouldn't have to worry about a potential thief being able to find something important that I forgot to secure. I think it would also be easy to operate the backup drive this way, as once you plug it in and enter the password, it should show as a regular volume to the OS, so you can copy files to it freely. Once you dismount and disconnect it, everything will be secure again in the event somebody else gets his hands on the drive, and you wouldn't have to worry about deciding which files should be encrypted and which don't need to be.

I don't trust cloud backup either, especially because I would have to copy everything into a special TrueCrypt archive before uploading it in order to prevent Google/MS/Dropbox/whomever from sniffing around in my files, and that doesn't even consider the implications of having your cloud storage provider get hacked, which could then result in your files landing in the hands of criminals worldwide. Good grief. Every time somebody mentions "The Internet of Things", I shudder. Having every appliance in the world connected to the Internet is a security nightmare.
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Sharc
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Re: [RESOLVED] fps?

Post by Sharc »

OMG, coming back to the forum this morning just to find how this thread has developped. You guys have really frightened me, I am devastated. You just made me think how to secure my electricity supply. How to backup and restore data without electric power? Trust that the power will return? Have you read "The Dome"? But wait, another minor practical problem comes into my mind: I have some historic HP85 cassettes - including backups on similar media -, but no reader at hand anymore to read and transfer the data ..... what a shame.

Coming back to the graphics card replacement: I'm afraid there will probably not be many options with my motherboard supporting PCI Express version 1.1 only. So it looks like I am stuck with the 9600GS.
Edit: I just read that a PCIe 2.0 card should be compatible with a 1.1 motherboard, so there is hope. :-)

Now running off for a Diesel generator and finding a secure storage place for an adequate volume of petrol... or should I better switch to solar/wind infrastructure now, controlled by IoT technology?
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Re: [RESOLVED] fps?

Post by admin »

No IoT, we already ruled that out.
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Re: [RESOLVED] fps?

Post by Sharc »

Ok, I replaced the graphics card. Now the framerate for this clip is reported correctly by DGIndexNV as 18.000 fps (rather than 15.000 fps as before).
Problem definitely solved.
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Re: [RESOLVED] fps?

Post by admin »

Good move and good news, Sharc.

What card did you install? PCI 1.1 is a definite limiting factor. Maybe the later cards can fall back to 1.1, I'm not sure.

Do you think you should, maybe, if possible, one day, not meaning to be pushy, think about upgrading your system? Or do your finances totally rule it out? If so, we could take up a collection here. For a fine chap like you? Absolutely.

Also, what about your backup plan for that ancient hard disk?

EDIT: Apparently they can fall back to PCI 1.1, so it's all good as long as they can fit the slot.
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Re: [RESOLVED] fps?

Post by Sharc »

I got a GT 730. Really not a parade horse, but it serves my purpose. And it operates fan-less, means noise-free which I like. On the downside the heatsink occupies the width of 2 slots, so I had to remove my video capture card which I used for capturing my old VHS tapes. Well, actually I don't capture much anymore. Almost all done.

And yes, I am vaguely thinking about upgrading of my system - occasionally. But no urgency as it still serves my purpose. So no rush with initiating a collection, but principally I find your idea really brilliant and definitely worth some more thoughts ;-)

Backup strategy for my 8 years old HD: Despite no bad sectors or other alerting signs, I started to take measures about a year ago, which are:-
a. Synchronizing the current work to an external NAS with 2 HD (RAID)
b. Daily automatic backup of selected user folders to the NAS, with file versioning (3 versions)
c. About monthly manual backup of the User data to an exteran USB drive
d. Full HD image to a external HD, say every 6 ....8 months
e. Backup of pictures to a cloud, for internet access or sharing

So there is a reasonable chance that I will survive a HD crash. Risk is more that a. to d. are in my home (fire, theft ...). So I may adopt your strategy of storing d. in my car, as bank safes are just too costly (compared to the value of my data, I mean).
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Re: [RESOLVED] fps?

Post by admin »

That's all good and proper. GT 730 is a fine card and fanless is sweet. All the high-end cards are two-slot beasts anyway, so no worries about that. You want the airflow around the heatsink so it would be problematic to make it a one-slot card with another installed right next door. I saw one of those on Amazon for $57.00, close to my estimate. You have my blessing. :D

Good luck with your projects, thanks for your contributions, and kick some ass in 2017.
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Re: [RESOLVED] fps?

Post by Guest »

I would kick in a few dollars to help Sharc
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