[RESOLVED] 2:3 pulldown – or not?

[Guest 2]

I am encoding my DVDs to x264 because I simply want to get rid of all the optical media and save on my NAS.

I went thru a strange DVD named "L'albero degli zoccoli". When I play the IFO I got a movie info, when I play directly the single VOBs, I have 2:3 pulldown notification:

IFO playing:

Code: Select all

Video
ID                             : 224 (0xE0)
Format                         : MPEG Video
Format version                 : Version 2
Duration                       : 3 h 6 min
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Width                          : 720 pixels
Height                         : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 4:3
Frame rate                     : 29.970 (29970/1000) FPS
Standard                       : NTSC
Compression mode               : Lossy
FrameCount_Source              : General_Duration
Duration_Source                : General_Duration

VOB playing:

Code: Select all

Video
ID                             : 224 (0xE0)
Format                         : MPEG Video
Format version                 : Version 2
Format profile                 : Main@Main
Format settings                : CustomMatrix / BVOP
Format settings, BVOP          : Yes
Format settings, Matrix        : Custom
Format settings, GOP           : Variable
Duration                       : 25 min 39 s
Bit rate mode                  : Variable
Bit rate                       : 4 700 kb/s
Maximum bit rate               : 9 800 kb/s
Width                          : 720 pixels
Height                         : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio           : 4:3
Frame rate                     : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                    : YUV
Chroma subsampling             : 4:2:0
Bit depth                      : 8 bits
Scan type                      : Progressive
Scan order                     : 2:3 Pulldown
Compression mode               : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)             : 0.567
Time code of first frame       : 00:59:39:00
Time code source               : Group of pictures header
Stream size                    : 863 MiB (84%)

I can clearly see on MEGui preview of AVS script some interlace fringing (the script uses DGSource plus SMDegrain) but I can't see them when playing DVD thru any standard software player.

Any idea about how to solve it without slowing down audio and other exotic things?

@rocky uploading to FTP already

[Bullwinkle]

It will take days to download that since my ISP became so stingy. Can you just give us the first VOB please? Or even just a 100MB cut of it?

Curly, can you handle this one?

[Guest 2]

It will take days to download that since my ISP became so stingy. Can you just give us the first VOB please? Or even just a 100MB cut of it?

Done. I included IFO too.

[Guest 2]

P.S: How is possible that every other VOB of different DVD I own are set as:

Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First (or Bottom on some)

I can't believe that. Is it enough to use deinterlace=1,use_top_field=true,use_pf=true and let DGSource manage it or should I get visual check for every DVD? It could be a PITA.

[Curly]

Your sample is pure soft 3:2 pulldown. Just set fieldop=1 in your DGSource() call. Did I miss something?

[Curly]

P.S: How is possible that every other VOB of different DVD I own are set as:

Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First (or Bottom on some)

I can't believe that. Is it enough to use deinterlace=1,use_top_field=true,use_pf=true and let DGSource manage it or should I get visual check for every DVD? It could be a PITA.

There are no universal settings. You know that! Yes, you have to check every DVD.

Scan type interlaced does not mean it is interlaced. Go figure. Nyuk nyuk.

[MeteorRain]

DVD specs only allow 720x480@29.97fps and 720x576@25.0fps (among a few other uncommon options).

If the movie is 848x480@23.976fps, it must be converted or flagged to 29.97fps interlace and resize or letterbox to 720x480 to be able to fit into a DVD disc.

No exception as long as it's a valid DVD video disc.

If you try to index the file you'll be able to see if it's a 100% film (pure 24 flagged as 30) or a 100% video (pure 30) or a mix. If it's a flagged 24 you can force it 24 and call it a day. Otherwise you'll have to analyze the video one by one. The worse case is you find a mix and it's nearly impossible to convert them into a modern format nicely. Region 2 Pokemon DVD series for example, was mastered as mixed 24/30 content and it'll be very hard to convert them without some advanced techniques.

[Rocky]

[Guest 2]

Your sample is pure soft 3:2 pulldown. Just set fieldop=1 in your DGSource() call. Did I miss something?

I can do wonders with computer hardware but I lack some strings with software, mostly video standards and formats.

Will try that, thank you!

[Guest 2]

DVD specs only allow 720x480@29.97fps and 720x576@25.0fps (among a few other uncommon options).

If the movie is 848x480@23.976fps, it must be converted or flagged to 29.97fps interlace and resize or letterbox to 720x480 to be able to fit into a DVD disc.

No exception as long as it's a valid DVD video disc.

If you try to index the file you'll be able to see if it's a 100% film (pure 24 flagged as 30) or a 100% video (pure 30) or a mix.

Very nice clarification!

Ehm... how can I learn if it's pure 24 flagged as 30 when indexing?

[Guest 2]

There are no universal settings. You know that! Yes, you have to check every DVD.

Picture something about more than one thousand DVD to convert here...

Scan type interlaced does not mean it is interlaced. Go figure. Nyuk nyuk.

Can you please clarify this aspect? It's something bit obscure to me.

[Guest 2]

Just found a nice trick with ffmpeg to determine what a video is, please tell me if it's a good method:

http://www.aktau.be/2013/09/22/detectin ... th-ffmpeg/

On progressive DVD material it gives me:

Code: Select all

[Parsed_idet_0 @ 00000222ad0e8f00] Repeated Fields: Neither:  8002 Top:     0 Bottom:     0
[Parsed_idet_0 @ 00000222ad0e8f00] Single frame detection: TFF:     0 BFF:     0 Progressive:  4273 Undetermined:  3729
[Parsed_idet_0 @ 00000222ad0e8f00] Multi frame detection: TFF:     0 BFF:     0 Progressive:  7987 Undetermined:    15

On really interlaced one:

Code: Select all

[Parsed_idet_0 @ 0000019c48c0a140] Repeated Fields: Neither:  8588 Top:   691 Bottom:   722
[Parsed_idet_0 @ 0000019c48c0a140] Single frame detection: TFF:     3 BFF:  9132 Progressive:    46 Undetermined:   820
[Parsed_idet_0 @ 0000019c48c0a140] Multi frame detection: TFF:     0 BFF: 10001 Progressive:     0 Undetermined:     0

[Rocky]

Ehm... how can I learn if it's pure 24 flagged as 30 when indexing?

Open the VOB in DGIndexNV. Navigate where you want to inspect. Hit F6 and watch the Film % field in the Info dialog. If it is 100% then it is pure soft 3:2 pulldown there. Or as guru MeteorRain already said: do a full indexing and look at the film %, either in the Info dialog or in the DGI file (at the bottom).

[Rocky]

Picture something about more than one thousand DVD to convert here...

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Can you please clarify this aspect? It's something bit obscure to me.

The content can be progressive but encoded as if it is interlaced. Very simple.

[Rocky]

I'm sure ffmpeg is just dandy. It's better to understand what you are doing, as Mr Peabody made clear.

[Guest 2]

as Mr Peabody made clear.

Err... apart from cartoons... who is Mr Peabody here?

[MeteorRain]

Can you please clarify this aspect? It's something bit obscure to me.

In order to fit anything into a DVD, you have to fake a few things. For example, since video resolution can only be 720x480 for NTSC contents, you have to either resize 848x480 to 720x480 and set DAR back to 16:9, or add black borders. Same for 640x480 contents, you have to stretch it to 720x480 and set DAR back to 4:3. For frame rate if you have 23.976 you have to 2:3 pulldown it to make it 29.970, or set the pulldown flag to fake interlace, because DVD only accepts that.

So long story short, it's a fake flag, a compromise. The author can either actually pulldown the video, causing potential loss of quality, or leave it progressive as-is and put a fake flag on it. It looks like a 720x480@30, it may actually be 848x480@24.

[Rocky]

who is Mr Peabody here?

Isn't life itself a cartoon?

I'm not sure about Mr Peabody. A bit pompous but very bright. Knows a lot. He's sort of like one's conscience, ya know? Always on your side but often bringing some unpleasant messages. When they come back from the past, usually, Sherman epiphanizes to the max. So, it's all good. Am I wrong?

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=671&p=10576#p10576

[Sherman]

The timeless Levi Stubbs covers a classic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxhIK7rUeqI

[Natasha]

Jimi Hendrix made a song about me!

https://youtu.be/-E2A60WslXg?t=14

[Guest 2]

do a full indexing and look at the film %, either in the Info dialog or in the DGI file (at the bottom).

Cool! I never looked at the end of DGI file!

Would you please add the percentage of TBF, BBF and progressive frames too? It would be really useful!

[Guest 2]

Isn't life itself a cartoon?

“Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense.” ― Alan Moore, Watchmen

It's so delightful to frequent this forum: wise people, fun facts and some science too.

I love you guys.

[Rocky]

Thank you, Guest 2, we aim to please. I'll mark this resolved but continue as needed.

[Levi]

This beautiful cover of a Jimi Hendrix classic brings peace to my soul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzo3kfByUIM

and here:

https://youtu.be/R11a7J1BsMQ?t=9

[Boris]

You think that's good? Look what I found lying around. If admin notices this the link will go bye-bye in a nanosecond.

[link removed]

Sweetie Pie really digs this.